Relax NG plugins

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Relax NG plugins

Ross Lamont
Hi folks,

I am thinking of writing a bunch of Relax NG plugins, principally to support validation, but also probably some editor support as well. The only existing plugin is the old one from NB 6.9, but I can’t find the codebase for that one.

Is anyone working on this or something similar at present?

Best Regards
Ross Lamont
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Re: Relax NG plugins

honyk-2
On 2016-11-29 Ross Lamont wrote:
>
> I am thinking of writing a bunch of Relax NG plugins, principally to
> support validation, but also probably some editor support as well. The
> only existing plugin is the old one from NB 6.9, but I can’t find the
> codebase for that one.
>

I am also interested in RNG validation. Have you made any progress?

That old plugin seems to use JING validator internally.

To my surprise that validator is nowadays already shipped with Netbeans. Can anybody clarify what this dependency is used for? (located in NetBeans 8.2\ide\modules\ext\jing.jar )

I hope NB uses some kind of pluggable validation API which could be somehow extended via appropriate configuration. Now when jing.jar is already on classpath, I believe required changes won't be as complex as expected initially.

Jan

PS: I am willing to help with this project.

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Re: Relax NG plugins

Ross Lamont
Hi Jan,

Sorry for the late reply.  I had shelved it for a bit but I’m back on it now.  Hope to have something soonish, sorry for the late reply.

Ross

> On 10 May 2017, at 7:35 am, Jan Tosovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2016-11-29 Ross Lamont wrote:
>>
>> I am thinking of writing a bunch of Relax NG plugins, principally to
>> support validation, but also probably some editor support as well. The
>> only existing plugin is the old one from NB 6.9, but I can’t find the
>> codebase for that one.
>>
>
> I am also interested in RNG validation. Have you made any progress?
>
> That old plugin seems to use JING validator internally.
>
> To my surprise that validator is nowadays already shipped with Netbeans. Can anybody clarify what this dependency is used for? (located in NetBeans 8.2\ide\modules\ext\jing.jar )
>
> I hope NB uses some kind of pluggable validation API which could be somehow extended via appropriate configuration. Now when jing.jar is already on classpath, I believe required changes won't be as complex as expected initially.
>
> Jan
>
> PS: I am willing to help with this project.
>


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Re: Relax NG plugins

Ross Lamont
In reply to this post by honyk-2
Hi Jan,

As regards Relax NG validation, it looks like my plans will have to change significantly.  There are 2 problems:
 - Relax NG instance documents do not have any means of identifying the schema, in the way that XML Schema or DTD do.  The solution to this is to use xml-model processing instruction and a few other ideas I have.  This leads us to the next problem:
 - Validation in Netbeans is very out of date.  There is no support for xml-model and in fact it is pretty hard wired to only do basic validation via the SAX validation flags (not using more up to date setSchema etc).  So there’ll be a bit of work to get that going.

I will likely start a new nbdev thread about updating general validation support in Netbeans in the next few days.  Keep an eye out for it…

Cheers
Ross

> On 10 May 2017, at 7:35 am, Jan Tosovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2016-11-29 Ross Lamont wrote:
>>
>> I am thinking of writing a bunch of Relax NG plugins, principally to
>> support validation, but also probably some editor support as well. The
>> only existing plugin is the old one from NB 6.9, but I can’t find the
>> codebase for that one.
>>
>
> I am also interested in RNG validation. Have you made any progress?
>
> That old plugin seems to use JING validator internally.
>
> To my surprise that validator is nowadays already shipped with Netbeans. Can anybody clarify what this dependency is used for? (located in NetBeans 8.2\ide\modules\ext\jing.jar )
>
> I hope NB uses some kind of pluggable validation API which could be somehow extended via appropriate configuration. Now when jing.jar is already on classpath, I believe required changes won't be as complex as expected initially.
>
> Jan
>
> PS: I am willing to help with this project.
>


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Re: Relax NG plugins

Emilian Bold-2
> I will likely start a new nbdev thread about updating general validation support in Netbeans in the next few days.  Keep an eye out for it…

Please start using [hidden email] , the code is
being donated to Apache any day now.

--emi


On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Ross Lamont <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jan,
>
> As regards Relax NG validation, it looks like my plans will have to change significantly.  There are 2 problems:
>  - Relax NG instance documents do not have any means of identifying the schema, in the way that XML Schema or DTD do.  The solution to this is to use xml-model processing instruction and a few other ideas I have.  This leads us to the next problem:
>  - Validation in Netbeans is very out of date.  There is no support for xml-model and in fact it is pretty hard wired to only do basic validation via the SAX validation flags (not using more up to date setSchema etc).  So there’ll be a bit of work to get that going.
>
> I will likely start a new nbdev thread about updating general validation support in Netbeans in the next few days.  Keep an eye out for it…
>
> Cheers
> Ross
>
>> On 10 May 2017, at 7:35 am, Jan Tosovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-11-29 Ross Lamont wrote:
>>>
>>> I am thinking of writing a bunch of Relax NG plugins, principally to
>>> support validation, but also probably some editor support as well. The
>>> only existing plugin is the old one from NB 6.9, but I can’t find the
>>> codebase for that one.
>>>
>>
>> I am also interested in RNG validation. Have you made any progress?
>>
>> That old plugin seems to use JING validator internally.
>>
>> To my surprise that validator is nowadays already shipped with Netbeans. Can anybody clarify what this dependency is used for? (located in NetBeans 8.2\ide\modules\ext\jing.jar )
>>
>> I hope NB uses some kind of pluggable validation API which could be somehow extended via appropriate configuration. Now when jing.jar is already on classpath, I believe required changes won't be as complex as expected initially.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> PS: I am willing to help with this project.
>>
>
>
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Re: Relax NG plugins

honyk-2
In reply to this post by Ross Lamont
On 2017-06-15 Ross Lamont wrote:
>
> As regards Relax NG validation, it looks like my plans will have to
> change significantly.  There are 2 problems:
>  - Relax NG instance documents do not have any means of identifying the
> schema, in the way that XML Schema or DTD do.  The solution to this is
> to use xml-model processing instruction and a few other ideas I have.

While xml-model is non-normative 'Working Group Note' (https://www.w3.org/TR/xml-model/), it is IMHO better than proprietary ways used by some XML editors, e.g.

<?oxygen RNGSchema="http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/5.0/rng/docbookxi.rng" type="xml"?>

> This leads us to the next problem:
>  - Validation in Netbeans is very out of date.  There is no support for
> xml-model and in fact it is pretty hard wired to only do basic
> validation via the SAX validation flags (not using more up to date
> setSchema etc).  So there’ll be a bit of work to get that going.

Thanks for sharing!

> I will likely start a new nbdev thread about updating general
> validation support in Netbeans in the next few days.  Keep an eye out
> for it…

I will :-)

I've already noticed some related traffic in https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@...

I really appreciate your effort in this field.

Thanks for that,

Jan

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Re: Relax NG plugins

Ross Lamont

> On 17 Jun 2017, at 5:33 am, Jan Tosovsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 2017-06-15 Ross Lamont wrote:
>>
>> As regards Relax NG validation, it looks like my plans will have to
>> change significantly.  There are 2 problems:
>> - Relax NG instance documents do not have any means of identifying the
>> schema, in the way that XML Schema or DTD do.  The solution to this is
>> to use xml-model processing instruction and a few other ideas I have.
>
> While xml-model is non-normative 'Working Group Note' (https://www.w3.org/TR/xml-model/), it is IMHO better than proprietary ways used by some XML editors, e.g.

True, but it is also a confirmed ISO standard (ISO/IEC 19757-11:2011).  I must admit I am mystified as to how ISO and W3 work together and what it means when one makes it a standard and the other doesn’t.

>
> <?oxygen RNGSchema="http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/5.0/rng/docbookxi.rng" type="xml"?>
>
>> This leads us to the next problem:
>> - Validation in Netbeans is very out of date.  There is no support for
>> xml-model and in fact it is pretty hard wired to only do basic
>> validation via the SAX validation flags (not using more up to date
>> setSchema etc).  So there’ll be a bit of work to get that going.
>
> Thanks for sharing!
>
>> I will likely start a new nbdev thread about updating general
>> validation support in Netbeans in the next few days.  Keep an eye out
>> for it…
>
> I will :-)
>
> I've already noticed some related traffic in https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@...
>
> I really appreciate your effort in this field.
>
> Thanks for that,
>
> Jan
>